GoKawiilLeah Feiger: OK. Yeah, get into this a little bit more with us. You spoke with a Democrat who has this big environmental science background running the Facebook group, a protester in New Jersey who describes right-wing allies as their temporary allies. Is this an actual durable coalition, an alliance of convenience? I'm really fascinated by this.
Molly Taft: It is. I also think that when I talk to a lot of people on the left, a lot of them are a little bit maybe politically blind to the fact that these ideas are resonating cross-party. I think what's interesting is when folks like the ones working on the ground, specific protesters, this is becoming a really good coalition-building issue. I—actually, this is not in the piece, but I spoke two months ago or so to Will Lawrence, who just won his primary last night. He was the far-left candidate in a Michigan district where there is a lot of data center development, and he really ran on that issue. And he said he was having a lot of really interesting cross-party conversations with people who are just like, "I do not want this here. I don't want it at all."
Zoe Schiffer: No, they definitely don't. I mean, I've been thinking about a couple points when you're talking. One is I think a difference with the clean energy movement and that build out where there was opposition, but there was also a very clear yes coalition. Whereas with AI, and I was talking about this earlier, the way that people in Silicon Valley use AI where it's like it's genuinely doing the work of junior-level employees, it's really changing their day-to-day in a magical and amazing way. And then how the average person uses it where it's not a necessary part of their lives in any way. It's like a lot of people, including probably people that oppose these projects, might use ChatGPT, but it's Google. It's just not a big deal. It doesn't feel like there's this strong coalition of people that are advocating for the data centers, except for the very, very tech elite. And those people are themselves so unpopular that it just feels like this whole issue has become radioactive.
Molly Taft: I think that's such a good point. I also think another thing that differentiates this from the renewable stuff is why I started talking to Joe is that there is this huge almost spiritual question about what are our lives going to look like if this technology is allowed to develop? I think a lot of people aren't directly thinking about that, but you're seeing news about how this is going to take your job and you're seeing news about what are your kids getting exposed to in school? What are your kids' lives going to look like? It's going to be so different from yours if this technology becomes more widespread. There is this really spiritual crisis element to it that I think doesn't necessarily cross everyone's minds, but plays a really important role. And I think that's something that is, I think, going to keep galvanizing people. I've been thinking a lot about what could tech companies do to tamp down some of this opposition? And I don't really know if I have an answer for them because I think even if they're like, "We will pay for everything. We'll make sure it's all connected to renewable energy. You will get an incredible tax base, durable jobs, whatever you want," maybe I'm wrong, I don't really see a lot of instances in which that would still fly for people. I just don't think people want these things at all.
Leah Feiger: Molly, thank you so much for joining us.
Molly Taft: Thank you for having me.
Zoe Schiffer: That's our show for today. We'll link to all the stories we spoke about in the show notes. Adriana Tapia produced this episode. It was mixed by Pran Bandi, who's also our New York studio engineer. It was fact-checked by Matt Giles. Marc Leyda is our San Francisco studio engineer. Kate Osborn is our executive producer, and Katie Drummond is WIRED's global editorial director.